Elder Paige, it’s a privilege and an
honor to come and have an honest and
intimate conversation with you today.
I’d like to welcome you to our
conversation and uh just uh want to uh
ask first of all um because I’m
intrigued by your past. Um how did you
come to know Jesus Christ for yourself
um as a younger man?
Well, Dr. B, I appreciate the
opportunity to share with you and uh be
here today. Um you know, I really didn’t
know Jesus growing up. I had no much
knowledge of Christianity all at all. Um
my grandparents on my my stepdad’s side
took me to church a few times, but
really I heard the name Jesus. Uh but I
really didn’t know anything about
Christianity. Mhm.
Um it wasn’t until later in life when I
was about 37 years old as a drug dealer
uh drug user just living a crazy life um
that I had a profound experience and uh
it was God making himself known to me in
a way that he knew would arrest my
attention.
Yes.
And would leave me
realizing that there is a God and he’s
real.
And at that time I began reading a
Bible.
Okay. And so, um, how did the good
shepherd come looking after you?
Well, you know, at this time in my life,
uh, I I didn’t care if people lived or
died. I I I became very wicked. I mean,
I I worked I made a lot of money working
and I finally quit working. I started
working with people out of Mexico
running drugs. And, um, you know, you’re
always looking for a way to get in
deeper and and make more money. That’s
what it was all about.
And I came to a point I didn’t care if
uh what happened to people. Um, I got
involved in spiritualism and I didn’t
realize that I was talking to demons.
Um, later I would discover that when I
read the Bible and uh, understood more
about what happens when you die.
But,
um, God would send an angel at this dark
time in my life and reveal things to me
about the Bible. And I would write out
write out this paper. It was like a
poem, but it was actually God speaking
to me in a way that I could understand.
And it was like a a conversation between
him, myself, and I was representing
humanity. And when I got done, um, I
heard footsteps running through my
house. I knew it was one of these
spirits I’d been conversing with.
Shortly after that, I saw a silhouette
of a person in the corner of my room.
That didn’t freak me out, but what I
heard running upstairs did my heart
about jumped out of my chest. I had
peace and calm. And then I went back and
I read what uh God was impressing on my
mind which I realized now that it was
God at that time. And I realized God had
visited me.
And uh that night I began reading a
Bible. And I began sharing with people
what little I knew about Jesus according
to my encounter. Um a lot of crazy
things started happening in my life. I
was under investigation at this time by
the task force and FBI. the secret
service got involved and uh just it was
bizarre and crazy but uh I would finally
cry out to God and ask him to help me
one night and uh he helped me within 12
hours he answered my prayer and I got
busted and went to prison.
Oh well you know the psalmist said in
Psalm 34:8, “Oh taste and see that the
Lord is good.”
Amen.
Blessed is the man that taketh refuge in
him.
Amen. And so you have experienced the
beauty of a conversion experience when
when God meets you personally uh in the
journey of life and sets you in a new
direction.
Yes.
And after God met you, you said you were
then arrested. You then spent time in in
federal prison.
Right. Right. And I just kept reading
the Bible. You know, after this
experience with God, I started reading
the Bible every day. I was still selling
drugs, still living crazy, and doing
things that were terribly wrong. But I
always tell people, you got to start
somewhere.
You know, you don’t take a bath just to
take a shower.
You know, God does the cleansing and he
does the healing and the restoration. Uh
he just asks us to keep walking in that
direction. Keep coming towards him.
And uh that’s what I did. And so when I
got locked up, the first thing I asked
somebody for, where’s the Bible?
And I I started reading the Bible again
while I was locked up. And I asked God
to teach me. and over through a course
of time I just got to know him more more
fully. So
and so you were studying the word of God
while you were locked away.
Absolutely. Yes.
Maybe the best opportunity for you to
study the word of God was to be waved
from the temptations of this world.
Right. Right.
And um while you were inside um how did
your Christian experience influence
those around you? Well, you know, um,
when the Holy Spirit’s working in
somebody’s heart, uh, people begin to
see change and they see that you’re
you’re going to stand up for what’s
right. You’re you’re you’re not going to
be afraid to to to do what’s right. Uh,
even when everybody else around you is
doing wrong or they refuse to. I’ll give
you an example. Um, God had been working
in my heart and I don’t I don’t like
seeing people get bullied. Um, I got
bullied when I was a little kid, so I’m
really against that. And I was studying
with this this uh young man and this
this big guy came over and told him,
“Give me your food tray.”
And I said, “Leave him alone.” And he
looked at me thinking, “Who are you?”
And I said, “Nobody, but just leave the
guy alone.”
And so he tried to intimidate me and I
wouldn’t be intimidated. And so, uh,
long story short, God God took care of
that man
in a way that I didn’t have to, uh, get
physically involved with him. But people
seen that I was willing to to
get to take and you know um trouble you
could say for what was right.
Uh and so when I would pray with people
and share with people uh they were
pretty open. Mhm.
Um I w up getting I did get in a fight
when I was in prison and uh when it was
all done, when we were done fighting, uh
I walked across the room and I sat down
and God convicted me, go and apologize
to that guy even though he hit me first.
And so when I got I didn’t even think
about this. You know, you don’t
apologize to somebody when you’re in
prison. That’s the worst thing you can
do. Everybody’s going to beat you up
then.
Uh but I just got up and started walking
across the room and you could hear a pin
drop. And uh I told the guy, “I’m sorry.
can we come together and pray together
later? And he said, “Yes.” And then I
walked back across the room and sat down
and this guy said to me, he said, “I
can’t believe you did that.”
And I’m thinking to myself, I can’t
believe I did it either.
But that was the Holy Spirit working in
my life.
When people see things like that
happening, they know God’s working in
your life.
Yes.
And and they want that same influence in
their lives as well.
Yes. And um you spent time with fellow
prisoners. Um, what do you believe their
primary spiritual or emotional needs
were based on what you were seeing
inside?
You know, uh,
let’s let’s face it, when you’re locked
up, you have time to reflect on life.
And a lot of these guys are thinking
about their life and and they think
about when they were a little child,
that wasn’t the path they wanted to
take.
Society begins to shape and mold people
along the way, and before you know it,
you’re involved in peer pressure. you’re
doing things that you normally wouldn’t
have done had the circumstances not been
the way they were.
And so they have time to reflect.
They’re they really want change.
Um but they don’t know how to change.
And this is where the gospel comes. The
true gospel, I’ll say the true gospel
because the true gospel transforms
people.
And when when and there’s a lot of false
gospel out there. Mhm.
And when somebody comes in and they give
them the the the feel-good gospel um
that Jesus loves you and and you’re good
to go, you know,
oh, they feel great and then they get
out
and they have no power over self,
over the flesh and they just wind up
back in the same place once again.
The true gospel gives you power over the
flesh,
over Satan and sin
and the ability to resist and draw near
to God. Amen. and the Holy Spirit
continues to fill your life and
transform you on a daily basis. So when
they know the true gospel, there’s hope
and there’s transformation for them.
I would agree with you that you know
Romans chapter 12, we are not to be
conformed to the ways of this world,
right?
But we are to be transformed in our
minds in order. The text says so that we
may know the will of God.
Yeah.
So when we are conformed to this world,
it’s very hard to hear and know the will
of God for you. And
it’s only when we go through that mental
transformation under the uh the the the
guidance of the Holy Spirit that we can
start to really perceive God’s will for
us in life.
Amen.
And so God led you on an incredible
journey. You came out of prison. Uh you
had your own business. You God gave you
a wonderful wife.
Then you entered the pastoral ministry,
right?
And you were a Bible worker. And then
you came to the pastoral work at Village
Adventist Church
and elsewhere in Michigan. And now God
is opening a new chapter of ministry, a
ministry called Drop of Grace. Would you
like to share what that is all about?
Sure. So, you know, um, several years
ago, I started going down to El Salvador
and do leading mission trips for the
Village Church, and you know, if anybody
looks up El Salvador and you do a little
research on it, the history of it, uh,
there’s been a lot of gang gang violence
down there. And I’ve been involved in
prison ministry in our country here with
Christmas behind bars on and off for
about 20 years.
And I always wondered, is it possible to
get into prisons down there and talk to
some of these gang leaders and members?
So that was always a burden on my heart.
And God opened that up.
And so um our new ministry will consist
of not only leading mission trips as I
have been in the past, um but we’re
going to focus on prison ministry as
well. God opened up prisons down there
for me. I just met with some people in
the government a couple weeks ago. They
told me you can go into any prison you
want with the exception of one. They
said I’d have to get direct permission
from the president or one of two people
that work directly with him. And I said,
“Well, that’s fair enough for right now.
Let’s focus on these prisons.” So, uh,
last year I went into a prison where
there was gang leaders and gang members
of MS-13 and Bario 18. You can watch a
video on my website under the prison
ministry tab on, uh, what we did there.
And next month I’m going down to a
women’s prison where they actually have
children with them in that prison. And
the ages are newborn to 5 years of age.
And there’s 500 women there, 200
children. Um I’ve asked permission to
not only go down and do a program, but
can we take in some hygiene items, some
uh snack items and that uh for the
women, for the little kids, and uh put
literature in there. My book’s been
translated into Spanish now. And uh we
got great controversies donated to us.
There’s another ministry looking at
donating materials to us in Spanish.
Yes.
And uh so we’re going to go down. We’re
going to buy the stuff down here, the
other items, snack items and so forth.
And the the academy kids are the
government said I can let them put
together the packages. So we’re going to
create ministry for the academy kids. Uh
the elementary kids already made cards
uh with Bible promises on them uh for
the packages. And so we’re getting
multiple generations involved in the
outreach. and that’s going to be a real
blessing. So, we’re going to go to that
prison. Uh the uh the individual in the
government asked me if I’d come back and
visit another women’s prison where
there’s 14,000 women there.
Uh there’s another men’s prison with
22,000 men in it. Um there’s a huge
opportunity there for prison ministry
and it just seems that for some reason
our churches uh haven’t been able to
make uh enroads there. Uh but God’s
worked it around a different way. So,
praise the Lord. They told me that I
could use some of our members down there
to establish ongoing ministries as I
come and do these re outreaches. Um,
that was one of the things I asked. They
said yes. Um, next year I’m looking at
bringing in a a dental team. So, I’m
looking to gather dentists together and
go into that women’s prison and have the
children there. Uh, not so much for the
children, but for the women and uh have
a dental team spend four days there
working with them.
And so, that’s a real blessing. Um,
we’re working on launching an online
ministry where we’ll have uh online
devotions and of course in uh sermons
and I I take speaking engagements. So
that that’s where we’re at right now.
You know, it’s a it’s a beautiful day.
It really is incredible how God is
enlarging the the the sphere of your
influence.
Amen.
And um I remember you sharing with me
how you were in a a highsecurity prison
and there were prisoners who were locked
up in sultry confinement.
Yeah. And uh you told me a a testimony
about the power of touch and just to
shake somebody’s hand. And I think we
forget what it is like to be starved of
all human affection. Maybe you just want
to share it because it was a powerful
testimony.
Yeah. So, uh this facility I visited,
it’s on the video there. Um the first
time I went, uh all they would do is
open the food hatch and I was in a
corridor of cells and it’s a concrete
box these guys are in steel door and
there’s a couple ways of uh accessing
it. You can flip down a steel panel and
there’s bars and you can see their face.
Um that remains pretty much locked all
the time. So they would just open the
food slot or you can open the door and
let them out. That’s the only way to get
in or access to them. So they open the
food slot for me. So, uh, my translator
and I, we would walk up and down and we
had a a microphone we could talk and
share with them.
And I had asked the warden and after I
went through the first one, I remember,
uh, uh, a pastor had said to me one time
when we were at a maximum security
prison here in the US, the importance of
the human touch
and shaking somebody’s hand, holding
their hands and praying together, the
impact it has on them.
So, I asked the warden, I asked the
person in the government, I said, “Look,
asked the warden, I want to I want to
shake their hands.” Mhm.
And he looked at the person in the
government. He’s like, “No way. These
guys these are the worst of the worst.”
Mhm.
And uh you can’t put your hand down
there like that.
And um I I knew it was going through his
mind. And I told her, I said, “Tell them
I’m not afraid. Tell them I want to
shake their hands.” And then uh that
person from the government looked at him
and said, “Let him do it.” And so he
told the guards. And uh in one of the
videos, you can see uh where I’m
actually doing this. And I walked over
to the first food slot and I put my hand
in front of it and nothing. And I asked
my translator, I said, “Hey.” I said,
“Do they understand what we just said
that, you know, I’m going to shake their
hands?” He says, “They understand, but
they’re afraid to put their hand outside
that food slot.”
Mhm.
Because they know what happens.
And I said, “You tell them it’s okay.”
And he told him again, and I just put my
arm right inside that food slot.
Wow. Yes.
And I felt the guy grab my hand and
shake my hand. Mhm.
And then I look down the hall and
everybody that’s got their face pressed
in the food slot could see what happened
and all of a sudden the arms come out
all the way up to the elbow.
Yes.
And it was just amazing.
Wow.
Just really impactful.
We read in the gospels of how Jesus
would lay his hands on children to bless
them.
Yeah.
Uh there is an old song that he touched
me
and we talk about uh touched by grace.
Yeah. Um but for people who are starved
of human love, um that handshake must
have meant an awful lot.
Yeah.
And I think it’s just a beautiful
testimony to how God is literally
opening doors for you as an American
citizen into these high security prisons
in Central America and how government uh
ministers and departments are trusting
you um to be an ambassador for Christ.
Amen.
Because uh that is who you’re
representing down there.
You’re not representing the federal
government or anything else. you were
there as an ambassador of Christ and he
is opening the doors for you to get into
those prisons. So, you’ve you’ve you’ve
um um prepared your testimony. It’s in
this book here. It’s called A Drop of
Grace
and it’s a fascinating uh testimony to
God’s goodness in your life.
Uh I believe that people can find this
for themselves at dropofgrace.org. Is
that correct?
Yep. dropofgrace.org. Yes.
And uh you’ve published, I believe, uh
12,000 books
recently. Yep. And uh if if anybody buys
one from you, then you have the funds to
give two more away.
Correct. And that’s what we’ve been
doing over the years. Yes.
Uh you know, somebody buys a book, then
we we give two away to prison ministry.
We’re actually out of these 12,500.
We’re going to give 8,000 away
immediately. Yes.
To Christmas behind bars. I’m going to
take uh several hundred down to Atlanta
America with me. We’re going to give
them away down there. And so we we just
trust God
uh to provide for uh what we need to
carry things through. Mhm. So the book
is called A Drop of Grace, a personal
journey of salvation by Dennis Page.
Yes.
And um it’s available at um
dropofgrace.org.
So I just want to conclude by um asking
you to share with our um audience today.
Um you know what it’s like to be on the
inside.
And Jesus spoke about the true gospel
and one of the signs of true Christians.
He said, “When I was in prison, you
visited me.”
Right. Um, what’s it like when you’re on
the inside to receive a genuine act of
kindness? How does that affect the heart
and soul of a prisoner?
You know, it it’s profound. Um, when I
was locked up,
my family never wrote to me.
They never came by to visit me and and
one of the facilities I was at was not
far from where they live.
Um, and so that it was very difficult
for me. Um, and some of these guys, they
go years without a family visit. Their
families write them off.
And the sad thing is is the fact of the
matter is this.
When you’re a little kid, you’re you’re
not thinking about going out. When I was
a little kid, I wasn’t thinking about
growing up and being a drug dealer and
being involved in uh having the ability
to take people’s lives and so forth.
You you’re not thinking about that
stuff.
But things happen. And these gang, some
of these gang members down there in El
Salvador, I know for a fact
um that some of them were forced into
gangs because they either join or their
parents are going to get killed. They
join or their sister’s going to get
raped. And I know this from the
testimony of students at Ekis Academy
that go there. Uh the student well the
student my wife and I sponsored both his
parents were killed by gang members.
Mhm.
Other parent, other students there, they
came there to flee the um the pressure
to join gangs.
And so it happens. So once they’re in
the gang and they make that concession,
then then their conscience troubles
them.
Then they wind up doing things they they
wouldn’t have done before,
but they do it out of fear because they
don’t want to see something happen to
their parents. So that’s the situation
that some of these gang members are in
in those prisons.
So they’re remorseful. They’re sorry. um
they wish they could turn the clock back
on time and do things different, but
they can’t. So, what do we do? Do we
just forget about them? Yes.
Do we write them off?
Um or do we take the commission that
Jesus gave to us and actually fulfill
it?
And prison ministry is actually a
ministry that’s often put on the side
um for a couple reasons. one, some
people, if you grow up in a very
sheltered home as both the Adventist,
you know, you grow up Adventist, you’re
pretty much sheltered from the world.
Um, you don’t know how to deal with
people like that.
And you know, and and then even if you
do make a concession of doing prison
ministry, um, you do it in hopes that
they never come to your church when they
get out. Some people have that minds,
well, well, we don’t want you coming to
our church. You know,
they just don’t know how to deal with
that. People have to understand the
gospel is real. The gospel is powerful.
God does change lives. And he is going
to bring people out of prison and bring
them back to your church. Uh he did it
to me.
And and here I am in God’s uh run the
church. Praise the Lord.
Amen.
And he did it with Lemga.
And so you know Jesus places the value
on a soul at the cross.
And when you think about it, the
father’s wrath was poured out on it. He
poured out his wrath on his son
for you and me.
Amen.
Now, you sure enough’s not going to beat
your child for me.
No. No.
And I’m not going to beat my child for
you.
Yes.
But God poured out his wrath on his son
for us.
Amen. And he calls us to go and love
those people, minister to those people
because Jesus
values them to the point of giving up
his life
and enduring
the second death
for every human being on this planet.
So what you’re essentially saying is
when we minister to these precious
souls, we’re ministering actually to
Jesus himself.
That’s what he says
because they are his handiwork.
That’s right.
And he knit them together in their
mother’s wombs.
Yeah. and his purposes for them are not
eternal destruction but everlasting
life.
Amen.
Amen.
So you have a website dropofgrace.org.
And I I just want to encourage anybody
watching the program to um take a look
at the website. They can invite you to
come and speak in their churches.
Sure.
Uh they can make a donation um to to
dropgrace.org.
And I would encourage people um uh
one-off donations are great, but this is
your livelihood now. And I would
encourage you, you know, if you can make
30, $40, $50 a month pledge and make a
regular payment, then this ministry can
be sustainable and it can reach more and
more prisoners all across the Central
Americas and uh they can take get the
book for themselves and they can also
join you in mission trips for these
prisons.
Yes, there’s actually I’m doing a
mission trip down to El Salvador next
year
and um you can go to my website, click
on missions and the information is
there. Um, I will be taking some people
with me, a few a handful with me to El
Salvador in September to go into this
prison.
And as uh more of them open up and I can
work it out, I be happy to take more
people with me to a initial visit and do
uh what we do here in the US with like
Christmas Beyond Bars. That’s what we’re
doing down there.
And so, yeah, I’m I’m all for it. And
I’m kind of curious when you go down to
visit the men’s prisons. Do you only
want men coming with you on that trip?
Yes, that would be ideal, especially in
this
and the large women’s prison. Are you
looking for Spanish- speakaking women in
particular?
Yes, that’d be very helpful.
Yeah.
Okay. All right. Well, um this is going
to go out on the internet. We just pray
that the seeds will be sewn and God will
yield a harvest of laborers.
Amen. You know, Jesus asked us to ask
the Lord of the harvest not for money
but for laborers
because when laborers step forward, uh
the money and the means always comes
with them. God always provides.
Amen.
So, we’re looking for gospel laborers uh
to work among some of the most um uh
despised and hardto-reach people in the
Americas.
Yeah.
And may God bless you, Elder Paige, as
you lead this ministry with your wife.
It’s my prayer that God will continue to
open doors uh for you physically and
spiritually and that many souls will be
saved in those prisoners for eternity.
May God bless you as you lead a drop of
grace.org.
Thank you, Dr. Ryan. Appreciate it very
much.
May God bless you.
Thank you.